TEA LEAF NATION
茶葉王國

Taipei's Fiery New Mayor Knows Whose Culture Is Best
台北的熱烈的新市長知道誰的文化比較好

And it's not Taiwan's. In an interview, he discusses the benefits of
colonization, his superior understanding of the Chinese Communist
Party, and the state of the New York subway.
而且不是台灣的。在此訪談中,他評論了殖民帶來的好處,
他對共產黨超乎常人的了解,還有紐約地鐵的情況。

※這段不知道誰加的,蠻奇怪 XD

Former trauma surgeon at one of the most prestigious hospitals in
Taiwan, Ko Wen-je made a surprising career shift and ran for the
Taipei mayoral election last November.
前台大醫院外科醫師柯文哲轉換人生跑道,跑去選台北市長。

A political newbie, Ko bagged more than 850,000 votes and has become
the first Taipei mayor in decades — a position considered a
stepping-stone to the presidency — who bears no affiliation with
any political party.
作為一個政治素人,柯拿到了 85 萬票,當選為台北市長
(台北市長一職公認為選總統的墊腳石),也成為數十年來第一個無黨籍的市長。

Ko's blunt talking style and a series of rapid moves to take on huge
Taiwanese corporations such as multibillionaire Terry Gou's powerful
Hon Hai Group, which makes iPhone parts, have riveted Taiwan.
柯文哲的快人快語快動作,例如說面對鴻海郭台銘的作為,讓台灣注目。

Ko also made international headlines when he accepted a watch as a
gift from the visiting British transport minister, a cultural taboo
among Chinese speakers.
柯也因為懷錶事件上了國際頭條。[此段略]

(Ko reportedly later joked he could sell the watch for scrap metal.)
(柯也開玩笑說他也許可以賣給收破銅爛鐵的)

In a freewheeling Jan. 20 interview with Foreign Policy in Taipei
City Hall, Ko spoke about the impact of his victory, his views on
the Chinese Communist Party, and why a picture of him riding the
capital city's subway managed to go viral.
在一月二十日一場隨性的面談中,柯文哲談到關於他的勝選、他對中共的看法,
還有為什麼他搭捷運的照片這麼紅。


The interview, conducted in a combination of Chinese and English, has
been condensed for clarity.
以下面談以中英文合併進行,為表達意思清楚,略有縮減。


On the impact of his victory:
Ko: The country has been shaken up by me. I am just being myself. In
our society, no one dares to be themselves. During the campaign, the
slogan that made me proudest — "Starting now, I will redefine
politics" — has been realized. Politics isn't that difficult; it
is about finding your conscience again. So, just do what is right.
Doing the right things is more important than doing things right.
There have been a lot of lies and fabrications [in Taiwan's
political environment].
關於勝選的影響:
整個國家被我翻轉,不過我只是在做自己。在我們的社會,沒人敢做自己。
我已經達成選戰中讓我最驕傲的標語「現在開始,由我來重新定義政治人物」。
從政沒有很難,找回良心而已。對的事情就去做。
做對的事情比把事情作對更重要。台灣社會就是有太多謊言和謠言了。


On Asian history and colonization:
For the [world's] four Chinese-speaking regions — Taiwan,
Singapore, Hong Kong, and Mainland China — the longer the
colonization, the more advanced a place is. It's rather
embarrassing. Singapore is better than Hong Kong; Hong Kong is
better than Taiwan; Taiwan is better than the mainland. I'm
speaking in terms of culture. I've been to Vietnam and mainland
China. Even though the Vietnamese are seemingly poor, they always
stop in front of red traffic lights and walk in front of green ones.
Even though mainland China's GDP is higher than that of Vietnam, if
you ask me about culture, the Vietnamese culture is superior.
關於亞洲歷史和殖民:
四個說中文的地區(台灣、新加坡、香港和中國),被殖民越久的,越先進。
這還蠻難堪的。文化上,新加坡比香港好,香港比台灣好,台灣又比中國好。
而且像我去過越南,就算他們好像很窮,他們還是會等紅綠燈。
就算你跟我說中國的 GDP很高,對我來說,越南的文化比較好。

embarrassing 剛剛誤譯成悲哀了,抱歉 [sarada]

On Taiwan's current state:
At this moment, Taiwan is like a car with very powerful engines but
no steering wheel.
關於台灣的現況:
台灣像是一台引擎很有力的車,但是沒有方向盤。

On America and Taiwan:
I lived in the United States for a year and I've been thinking over
the past 20 years about why the United States is a good country.
Whether you like it or not, [you have to admit] its people are
rather free. A cultivated nation is not about having nuclear
weapons, spaceships, or high-speed rail. It is about the realization
of basic social values and letting citizens live like human beings:
democracy, freedom, rule of law, human rights, and care for the
underprivileged. They may sound very basic, but these are the
fundamental values of a society.
關於台灣和美國:
我在美國住過一年,過去 20 年一直在想為什麼美國是個好國家。
不管你喜歡不喜歡,他的人民就是比較自由。
一個有實力的國家不是取決於有核武、太空船或者高鐵,
而是決定於社會基本價值,和讓人有尊嚴地活著。
民主、自由、法制、人權,然後照顧弱勢。這聽起來很基本,但是就是社會的基本價值。

On Taiwanese democracy:
Does Taiwan have democracy? Real democracy means politics belongs to
the people. Taiwanese politics belongs to corporations and is
controlled by political parties.
關於台灣民主:
台灣有民主嗎?真正的民主是政治屬於人民。
台灣是政治被政黨掌控,政黨又被財團掌握。 [pastor1982]

On mainland-Taiwan relations:
If you ask me about the one-China policy [which recognizes only one
China, while allowing both the mainland and Taiwan to claim they are
the "China" recognized] my question is, what is one China? You
have to tell me what one China looks like. If a girl is to marry
into another family, you have to tell her what that family is like.
Cooperation is more important than reunification. If reunification
is achieved without cooperation, it will be meaningless. We have to
mutually know, understand, respect, each other; then finally we can
cooperate with each other. We have to convince Mainland China that a
free and democratic Taiwan is more in China's interest than reunification.
關於兩岸關係:
如果你問我一中政策,我要問,什麼是一中?你要跟我說一中長什麼樣子。
就像一個女生要嫁到另一個家族裡,你要跟她說那個家族長什麼樣子。
合作比統一更重要。如果統一了卻沒有合作,那一點意義都沒有。
我們必須互相認識、互相了解、互相尊重、互相合作。
我們要讓中國知道民主自由的台灣比統一更對他們有利。


On the photo of Ko taking the Taipei subway that went viral in
mainland China, in part because of its contrast to the cosseted life
of many mainland officials:
I couldn't have imagined that [the photo would get so much
attention], but in fact I don't care, because I was just being
myself. This is called a cultural gap. I once said that when more
than 99 percent of Chinese people close the doors while doing their
business in bathrooms, we can start talking about reunification.
This hurt the feelings of many Chinese people, but a cultural gap
[between mainland China and Taiwan] does exist. There's nothing
wrong about officials taking the subway. Why is this unusual? So
people talked about "one country, two systems," but maybe we
should talk about "two countries, one system" instead. We should
try to narrow the gap.
關於那張搭捷運的照片被瘋傳,部份也許因為反觀中國那些官員:
我無法想像,不過我不在乎,我只是在做自己而已。這叫文化差異。
我曾經說過當 99 % 的中國人上廁所都會關門時,我們就可以來談統一。
我知道這讓很多中國人很受傷,但是文化差異就在那邊。
一個市長搭捷運有什麼問題?所以當大家在討論一國兩制,
我倒覺得是這樣啦,我們應該討論「兩國一制」,我們應該先讓差異縮小。

On the Chinese Communist Party:
I have a better understanding of the Communist Party than most party
members because I like reading. I have a better understanding of the
Communist Party than most party members because I like reading. I
have read a lot of books about the party's history. The party isn't
a rival; it's a client. China's a problem that we must face, no
matter [whether] you like it or not.
關於中共:
我很喜歡閱讀,所以我對共產黨的歷史很清楚,大概比多數黨員還清楚。
共產黨不是敵人,是個客戶。中國的問題,不管你喜歡不喜歡,我們都要面對。

Throughout China's history, there were very few dynasties when
every citizen was fed. It's unbelievable that the Chinese
government can achieve this. It's something we should respect.
However, they have their own difficulties to overcome.
整個中國歷史上,能餵飽人民的朝代沒幾個。所以中共能作到還是有他厲害的地方。
但是他也有自己的問題要去面對。

On Taiwan's influence on the mainland:
I think keeping a democratic, liberal Taiwan benefits Chinese history.
When people say the Chinese people do not deserve universal suffrage,
there have been five presidential elections in Taiwan already.
People say that the Chinese people are not civic-minded;
[but] take a look at Taiwan's subway. It's cleaner than the New York subway.
關於台灣對中國的影響:
我想保持一個民主自由的台灣對整個中國的歷史有正面影響。
當大家在說中國人不配擁有全民普選,台灣已經選了五次總統。 [SkyMirage]
大家說中國人沒什麼公德心,但是台灣的地鐵比紐約的地鐵還乾淨。

※這段很難翻,請幫我修正 orz

On Taiwan's 2016 presidential election:
I don't know what will happen in the future, but I hope Taipei city
will be a "demilitarized zone" between the blue and green parties.
[In Taiwan, "blue" refers to the ruling Kuomintang, while "green"
 means the Democratic Progressive Party, which advocates a tougher
stance towards Beijing.] I will try to keep neutral. I will not run
for president. That's a clear-cut answer.
關於 2016 總統大選:
我不知道未來會怎樣,但是我希望台北市可以成為藍綠的非軍事區。
我會盡量保持中立,而且我不會選總統,這是一個明確的答案。

=========================================================
整體來說答得很得體,但部份內容被媒體斷章取義報導有點可惜,
不過全文看完我有一個認同與一個疑問…

認同的是:
柯:要面對中國,了解中國、與中國相互合作…
這部份我個人極認同,因為台灣還有太多人在逃避中國,用仇視中國取代了解中國,並且不肯面對中國的既有優勢而自抬台灣身價,我覺得這是很昏愚的事。

疑問的是:
柯:必需讓中國認識台灣的民情與文化…
這點也很重要,但要怎麼做呢?

孫子兵法有云:
「知己知彼,百戰不殆;不知彼不知己,每戰必敗。」
台灣人仇視中國,已經到了蒙蔽理性認知的地步,但實際上單純的情緒根本無法解決兩岸問題,因為你不了解事實這要怎麼去處理,因為你根本不知道問題在哪,但因為台灣弱,所以更需要了解中國的現況,透過了解才能知道台灣要由什麼方向突破現在的困境,因為純情緒與武力,台灣絕對不是中國的對手,也解決不了中國的威脅;台灣的優勢在經濟、在人才、在技術,先想想如何保住我們現有的優勢,但至目前為止的藍綠政客鄉這些方面都無計可施,另外如何利用美國與中國的瑜亮情節來謀取台灣在兩強中間最大的政經利益?有個方向可以思考,總是比你單純用張嘴說"台灣很強,中國很豬"來得務實許多。

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